Round Table With IDOGUN – SUBMISSION TALK

Welcome to another interactive session with IDOGUN.
Today, we are looking at the word women hate to hear, “SUBmission”

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SUBmissssssssssssion

Yes! Plus, we want to know if SUBmission is for both men and women alike. So stay put as usual and don’t go anywhere
It’s a long chat, but I promise that you won’t go home the same 😉
We have 6 people as usual – Grace, Nnamdi, Paul, Bukola, Blessing and IDOGUN (me)

To the 21st century woman, who is a feminist and believes that men and women should be equal, submission is farfetched (note-feminism is from the pit of hell because it destroys God’s divine order of the home) for the woman who possesses the same education as her husband and even earns more than her husband, submission is as good as dead. And the lack of this subtle word in homes has destroyed many homes and counting. We hate to hear the word submit because we think it’s unfair, plus we don’t know what it truly means. However, on a platform like this, we would be breaking it into bits and pieces, so as to ensure that it still lives on despite the effort to bury it, and in order to bask into the unlimited power it brings.

Question: What is submission? Does it have boundaries and should it be mutual in marriage, seeing that the bible said submit one to another? why is it very hard for most women to submit to their husbands?

Grace: submission is NOT dictatorship. Please let this sink in for a minute before you move on (men take note)

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First of all let’s know who a dictator is so we can understand dictatorship. A dictator is someone who rules or obtains power by force.
He says, you must do what I say; sit down here, go get me a glass of water now. Whenever I am speaking you shut your mouth until I give you permission to speak. When you earn your salary you must drop it at the apostle’s feet.

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What a tough marriage? This woman must be having hell at home.

But submission is a willingness to obey. Take note of the word “willingness”. A submissive wife says, “though I have a choice not to obey you, I have chosen to obey you”. Submission is beautiful. Its end results are peace, joy and love. It also breeds honour, as we see it in the life of Jesus, when he totally submitted to God and in the end, God gave him a name that’s above every other name.
To understand submission, we must understand the divine arrangement of it
Christ to God, Man to Christ and Woman to Man.
God-Christ-Man-Woman (God is a God of order )

BUKOLA:

Submission is gotten from the Greek word, “hupotasso” which means “to subordinate;put under…” God exhorts women to follow their husband’s leadership (Ephesians 5:22, 1 Peter 3:1).

NNAMDI: Submission is the action of accepting or yielding to the will or authority of another person. True submission is never compelled/coerced!
It is done willingly. If it is forced, it becomes intimidation rather than submission. One can obey and still complain, but one cannot submit and still be complaining. It takes a BROKEN CLAY to submit. It takes a yielded vessel to practice submission. Christ laid His life by His own accord; that was submission in action.

BLESSING: According to the dictionary, submission is the act of yielding or to give away to another. it can also be defined as a total or complete obedience (remember that partial obedience is no obedience at all)
Biblical submission has to do with the FEAR OF GOD, without a true fear of God, someone cannot actually exhibit submission. In other words, Submission comes from the spirit.

IDOGUN: Awesome! These are all very correct. Submission truly isn’t dictatorship, as it ceases to be submission when it’s done unwillingly. And when a woman who is a CEO has 10 degrees plus a PhD, submits to her husband who maybe doesn’t really have as much as she does, he would value her, love on her and respect her, because in spite of all that she has acquired, she has chosen to come under him and obey whatever he has to say. Indeed, submission is beautiful. Our darling BUKOLA stated that God exhorts women to follow their husband’s leadership. I like to put it like this. As Grace said, God has an order for submission. In the spiritual, the husband has been placed as the head of the home, he has been given a SCEPTRE, which signifies authority to govern and rule is home, even though he may not look like someone worth submitting to in the physical. As far as he is the man, he must be respected as the head of the home. And when the woman tries to go against this divine design, the home starts having problems.

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The SCEPTRE Is possessed by kings and it signifies their authority. Remember the story of Esther?

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As a wife, you must submit to his authority because it has been divinely ordained, otherwise, it is better not to marry just like the disciples of Jesus said, if you don’t want to be under any man. Of course, BLESSING said submission comes from the spirit not the flesh, because the flesh doesn’t want to be under subjection. Let’s move on 😉

Does submission have boundaries?

GRACE:
Well, submission DOES have boundaries. You shouldn’t submit to everything your husband tells you to do in instances that are ungodly. That’s why you should get married to someone with an undying love for God.
For instance, your husband tells you to burn the house down, would you do it?
Or tells you to lie on his behalf?
Therefore, submit to only things that are godly.

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I am a submissive wife, yes Lord!!! Hallelujah!

BLESSING:

No, it DOESN’T have boundaries as seen in 1 peter 2:13-15

For the Lord’s sake, submit to all human authority—whether the king as head of state, or the officials he has appointed. (15)for this is the will of God..

My point is that you are to submit to everyone in authority or the persons ahead of you- your parents, the President, kings, your lecturers, even down to your class representative, if you are a student. For it is the will of God.

Christ is the head of the Church as the husband is the head of the wife. the bible says that wives should submit unto their husbands as unto the lord (in the fear of the lord) while the husbands should love their wives EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVE THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT.
These verses apparently links a wife’s submission to nurturing behaviour on the
husband’s part: behavior that is self sacrificing, respectful and loving.
Because of the unending love of Christ towards his church, he cannot tell his church to do something harmful. In the same vein, the husband that loves his wife wouldn’t tell her to submit to something that is harmful or ungodly. Thus, the wife should submit to the husband in EVERYTHING as the bible instructed.

PAUL:
Submission does NOT really have boundaries but it has principles. Meaning, Submission equals love and there is no excess of it (no boundaries) plus, love doesn’t do stupid things (the principle)

IDOGUN: there are two ways to this question, and Grace, Blessing and Paul have given the answers correctly. Grace gave the view point of a godly woman who has an ungodly hubby, so in this case, submission has boundaries. whereas, Blessing and Paul gave the viewpoint of a godly woman married to a godly man, so submission has no boundaries here. And also, dearest blessing went beyond the marital relationship to other relationships, which I am glad is part of this discussion.

Should submission be mutual in marriage?

GRACE:

Submission SHOULD and SHOULDN’T be mutual in marriage. Here’s why:

Husbands and wives are not to mutually submit to one another. What I mean is this, men are not to submit to their wives, but they should listen to the view points of their wives. The divine construction of submission is Jesus to God, man to Jesus and woman to man. So when the bible says submit “one to another”, it literally means submit to your “head”

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The men as we see in Scriptures that submitted to their wives over God,
paid dearly for it. Abraham submitted to Sarah when she said he should sleep with her servant, he should have taken it to his head and see what is head was gonna say- in fact, his head already told him that he should wait for a child, but Abraham chose to submit to his wife over his head. Adam submitted to Eve over the instruction his head gave him. Etc
In other words, it’s important for husbands to hear what their wives are saying to them, but they should go to their own head in prayer and see what he’s gonna say.

Now there’s another instance where Abraham DID it right. He didn’t submit to Sarah but his head instructed him to listen to her before he did what she said he should do.

11 This upset Abraham very much because Ishmael was his son. 12 But God told Abraham, “Do not be upset over the boy and your servant. Do whatever Sarah tells you, for Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted. 13 But I will also make a nation of the descendants of Hagar’s son because he is your son, too.”

14 So Abraham got up early the next morning, prepared food and a container of water, and strapped them on Hagar’s shoulders. Then he sent her away with their son, and she wandered aimlessly in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Genesis 21

2) Men SHOULD submit to their wives in instances that don’t require seeking the face of God.
Let me give a scenario: a husband and a wife are in their car and the husband is on the steering wheel. The wife sees a car coming at full force that the man wasn’t opportune to see on time. So the woman says, ” darl, watch it, there’s a car coming towards us with full speed. If the man thinks his wife is talking gibberish and says, well, whatever I don’t see doesn’t exist because am the head.” Heheheh. That would just be the end of it all. And in this case the man cannot say let me see what God is saying, whether I should slow down or not. He just has to listen to his wife and slow down or stop the car to avoid an accident.
NNAMDI:
There is primary submission (which is mutual) and secondary submission.
Primary submission is a responsibility for all christians to another; old and young, male and female, rich and poor , etc.
You submit to a fellow brethren when you WILLINGLY do something that will please them (without offending God) even without their compelling/’over-begging’ you to do it. In leadership, it is easier to lead a person(s) who are given to submission. The submission of a wife (secondary submission) makes it easier for the man to lead the home.

BUKOLA:
Well, saying it should be mutual in marriage is looking at the scripture in Eph 5:21 and that relates to EVERYBODY not the marital relationship.
That’s is, relating generally with everyone as Christians, we are expected to submit to one another in the FEAR OF GOD!
This talks about our relationship with people, removing pride and allowing others to have their say too, not always wanting to have our way and doing all this in the fear of God.

21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

The scripture further spells it out in vs 22 that wives are to submit to their own husbands.
It didn’t spell out that husbands should also submit to the woman. That’s the hard truth!Note: Christ cannot be subject to the church. Rather, the church is to be subject to christ
Note that vs 22 says TO YOUR OWN HUSBAND. When it comes into a marital relationship, is a different ball game entirely and we are to view it as the relationship between Christ and the church( Eph 5:23-24)
Wives are enjoined to subject to their husbands as the church is subject unto Christ!

PAUL: submission is mutual. Two cannot walk together except they agree. The agreement there is not VERBAL ACCEPTANCE but commitment. That’s not just saying we agree but really committing to it.
BLESSING:
Respect is mutual NOT submission, just as the church submits to Christ. wives submit, husbands don’t submit but they should respect their wives the way God from the beginning respected the choice of man in the garden of eden

IDOGUN: hmmmm… There are only two answers to this question. Grace gave instances from the bible, Abraham and Adam. So in her case and that of BUKOLA’s, submission shouldn’t be mutual in the context of marriage. In the case of fellowshipping with brethren, it should be mutual

why is it very hard for most women to submit to their husbands?

GRACE:

Submission is hard because it was part of the curse.

“…And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.”
Gen 3:16

But thank God for Jesus who redeemed us from the curse of the law. Any woman who isn’t redeemed finds it hard to submit, but the one who is redeemed finds it easy because submission is an attribute of the dove or the Holy Spirit.

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BUKOLA:

It is very difficult for most women to submit to their husbands because the foundation is faulty!
Remember that a woman’s husband is her leader. One who drives the vehicle of the marital relationship.
Because a man is handsome and rich does not mean he has good judgement and has the fear of God and allows God to lead him.
That is why a woman should marry a wise and God fearing man, a man she respects! This is because you can never submit to a man you don’t respect or regard.
Most women just marry because of very funny reasons forgetting that marriage is about making more than “a million decisions” per day! They don’t consider that when a husband and wife come to a round table, each brings his or her reasons. Having looked through opinions, THE MAN by scriptures should decide which stands! The wife can’t decide that. She’s not the leader! The wife can’t draw final conclusions while the man follow after her. It’s an aberration! So a wise lady should marry a wise and God fearing man. This is because no matter how exposed, spiritually intelligent and brilliant you are, you must bring all that fire under the leadership of your Husband. Two captains cannot control a ship at the same time. It will end in disaster. A woman that can’t submit to her husband is heading for a shipwreck. Confirmed! Lol

Even if your husband decides to go with your opinion, he’s still going to bring it under the light of his own judgement. You can’t force it on him! A woman forcing her way of course brings strife, bitterness and then, malice

PAUL:

Submission Is never hard. Women are naturally submissive because she’s an emotional being. Note- anything that has emotion is more submissive than anything that has ego. Two reasons why women find it hard to submit are
No. 1 Most men don’t know how to start a relationship
No.2 Most men don’t learn the difference between a woman’s psychology and a man’s psychology.

For instance, women become offensive once they detect that their emotion is not protected. Its just like a woman who gives some money to her husband and she discovers that he uses the money on other women. Her emotion becomes troubled and she could poison the man without looking back. When emotion is wounded, it behaves like an angry lion.

Bukky made a good point but she shouldn’t forget that love is superior to submission. Love has higher services and sacrifices than submission. Anyone who is in love submits. A woman is instructed to submit to her husband in the sense that she shouldn’t see herself as a different person from her husband. She should be in agreement with him according to scriptural purposes. Jeusu said, ‘If you love me, you will obey me’ And here a man is instructed to love his wife. Does it mean that he will obey his wife? Yes and no. Love and submission means compatibility. To agrre with one’s husband is submission and to love one’s wife is submission. Until we are in love, we resist. But once we love someone, we submit. That is why a woman can resist rape to her death but she could have sex with a man she is in love with many times in a day. Love and submission are too two which are just one thing.

Bukola:
Of course I agree with you Paul. We are on the same page. You went further to break it down. Indeed, Love is superior to submission. A woman can’t submit if she’s not walking in Love either towards God or her husband. Her love for God will make her submit to her husband even if it’s not on something she is keen on.

NNAMDI:
Submission is not convenient to the flesh. No carnal person ever submits to a Godly kingdom principle. It takes SPIRITUAL MATURITY to submit!
Not spiritual title, office or gifts! Sorry to say that many ladies are rarely spirtual when it comes to marital issues.
Telenovela,Nollywood, Hollywood, etc tend to assume superiority over the HOLY WORD!

IDOGUN: Profound! Just as Bukola stated from the bible, ” a wife should submit to her OWN husband” Many women know how to submit to every other man except their husbands. They give their pastors so much respect but look down on their husbands. Whatever the DOCTOR tells them to do it, they do it without questioning him and with all diligence. But when it comes to their husbands, it’s a No-No. And they make their husbands wonder, “is this the same woman living with me in the house?” Thank God for Jesus who took the curse of the law from us, now it’s very easy to submit for a born again woman. In addition, ladies, please get married to someone you can submit to. All very good contributions and I have learnt so much from here. God bless our contributors

Over to you, fam, do you agree with what has been said? We’d love to hear from you

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